An archive of visual dialogue.

Designologue

Initiator
radar
Conspirator
glorymachine
A vintage image
Previous Theme
Next Theme
radar

Thought I would start with some All American iconography (i.e. the flag, the tank, and oh yeah beer). And I couldn’t resist starting with Busch beer, the name and slogan are perfect.

16 years ago, March 3, 2003
inman

That’s a beautiful image radar. This is going to be a DSNLG to watch. The theme is sure to piss a few people of too—which is always good for conversation.

Glory machine can testify to that ;D

bearskinrug

I agree - fantastic job - your colors work very well also…

RevDrLuv

Is this supposed to be pro-war? It seems very satirical to me.

Great colors, looks like a beer ad in an old newspaper.

bharper

yeah, i like where the image is going, but as far as the theme is concerned, i think it is pretty MESSED up. id love to start a warm, compasionate ANTI WAR campaign to counteract this real piece of work.

bharper

this image pisses me off… really, truly, deeply… i mean, i love america.. and i like our image.. but.. seriously guys.. this war is about as twisted as it gets… JESUS… can’t you put your creative skills to some good use..

inman

When I’m right, I’m right ;D

heavy

i think this stuff needs to be said. i mean c’mon. this war may be f’ed up, but so is everything leading up to causing it on both sides. way to go radar, beautiful image!

radar

This is the reason I chose this topic, I like these heated arguments, with extremists on both sides. But what it comes down to, is being Anti-War is “the American thing to do”, for the moment. Just like a year ago if you didn’t have an American flag sticker on your car you were unpatriotic. I’m both for and against the idea of war for different reasons, but its not my place to judge someone else for what they believe.

RevDrLuv

Anti-War the American thing to do? I think you have been on these online forums too much radar. Get down on the street and tell me what you think. Sure more people are against this war than any other since the 60’s it seems, but it is still not the majority.

bharper

ok, who wants to do ANTI WAR CAMPAIGN with me, i will do it alone if i have to (sound familiar??)

bharper

i agree that there is a certain amount of fashion type fad in regards to popular opinion on hot topics.. but war is about the death of people…. period. in my mind, this is more important than popular opinion. people are gonna die, and that is unnecesary and unwanted, in my opinion. maybe you dont agree. i dont think the people of iraq like saddam any more then we do, so why dont we just take him out and let his poor people alone. dont you think they have suffered enough? As far as our own suffering goes, the only terror i have experienced since 9.11 is these pathetic government issued security warnings… red/orange/yellow.. blah blah blah.. what a frckin joke. just found out today that my highschool buddy is in kuwait right now, getting ready to fire up his m80 or whatever his gun is called (the biggest one in the infantry)… and it really soberd me up to the reality that real people are gonna die. do you wanna die? and for what again, remind me?

Aarseth

The troubling thing about war is that the people at home tend to view it more of a sports event than a coordinated effort to kill people (“Yay, we won! America rulez!”). CNN is just another network offering reality programming. Our President wants revenge for Big Daddy Bush and he wants oil. Your high school buddy is going over there so we can put off the integration of hybrid cars for another ten years. Oversimplified and one-sided, but true.

I would love to do an Anti-War DSNLG with you, but as you can tell, I’m already a bit behind in our current one. But if you’re not in a hurry…

glorymachine

.

16 years ago, March 4, 2003
RevDrLuv

OK, this is just making the war seem even more corporate sponsored and creepy. Isn’t this supposed to be pro-war? This would turn me away more than convince me that war is the answer.

fashionvictim

I’ll have to agree. Neither one of these images seems like it is making any argument for war. Soldiers juxtaposed with beer logos appears to make a satirical statement. Have you guys changed your minds on the direction of this thing?

heavy

i am afraid that this is getting a bit satirical as well. i felt the original really felt the topic. I mean appeal to the common American, John Q. Public of Mitchell, South Dakota. War, our President, it’s as American as well, cheap watery beer. Yes, tongue-in-cheek but it’s true, Pro-War has to appeal to the lowest common denominator if it’s going to really work, right?

The second image seems to imply corporate sponsorship of our military. While this in itself does not seem too far away, beer? Hmmmm…

heavy

i hear ya glory. perhaps we all got too deep, but speaking of deep or not, or whatever…a friend of mine over in kuwait sent this email out just now to some of us back in the states…

“If the soldiers had a choice, the war would be canceled for lack of interest. I don’t know who said that we all want to be here- that’s not true. Most of the soldiers I’ve talked to don’t believe we should be here. I will save my opinion for later.

We have been doing a lot of training in preparation. I guess it is not training anymore- there are a lot higher expectations of what we can do. We are getting a lot of new equipment. It would have been nice to have it before now. I also am getting better at Arabic.

I miss everyone, and can’t wait for the day I can come home, and finally get out of the Army. It feels like I am serving a sentence in prison- in the deserts of Kuwait and Iraq. I never want to come back to this part of the world, ever. “

RevDrLuv

Since your image and concept have nothing to do with Miller, a brand of beer, it would have made much more sense to not use their name. I know you are trying to play off popular ad slogans and such. So, like in the first image when Busch changed to Bush, it would have fit your concept better if you had changed the Miller logo to say Killer (or something). Small detail, but it would have made things clearer and more clever.

randy

I guess I make up the other half. I don’t smoke, I’m vegetarian - no McDonalds for me, and I only drink micro-brews. I like the idea of exploiting corporate sponsorship within war though. I definitely think you guys lost the pro-WAR edge and are treading more along the lines of anti-WAR sediment. The use of satirical humor and macro-brew logos really gets the disgusting point of why this war shouldn’t happen across. I guess what I’m trying to say is; good job failing!

bharper

agreed! good job failing. when the best of pro war campaigne is as bad(satiracal, mocking..etc..) as this, the truth is plain to see. the soldiers dont want to be in the deserts, none of us want to kill any one other then that saddam character… this whole thing is laughable… we should put BUSH and SADDAM in the desert, and let them have a fist fight.. that would ROCK!

RevDrLuv

OK glory, that was completely uncalled for. Part of this site is that we offer critique in order to help one another advance technically and conceptually. Sorry if I offended you. I was not trying to pick on you, I was trying to be constructive.

Of course I know that “Miller Time” is the Miller brand slogan. I was referring to your specific use of the brand name which has nothing to do with the pro-war concept behind this conversation. Changing that name (like Busch to Bush for example) but keeping the brand identity would.

I know we do not always see eye to eye, but there is no need to make an ass of yourself.

randy

Uh oh, I think I may be next… GloryMachine, it’s just criticism, you have to expect it to be heavy when choosing a DSNLG titled “pro-war campaign”. Honestly I didn’t even think the critics would come out this nice. I realize what you guys are trying to do with this conversation, and I (as well as others) respectfully disagree with the motives. I was actually at the Anti-War rally here in Detroit, I’m probably as passionate as you about this debacle. Just on the other side.

heavy

wow. someone is getting a bit snippy. really, i think everyone so far has had some vaild comments, shame that constructive criticism is being seen as personal attacks.

radar, did you have any idea that “bush” beer could ever lead to this. come to think of it, i’ve been on the wrong end of some busch’s and i should have seen this coming. heh heh heh.

glory, i like your image, is it as clever as its opener? that is a matter of opinion, one of which i will not offer. i think the RDLV has a point about your appropriation of the logo though. it would just be the last push over the edge. that in no means means you are worng or not a good designer or wet your pants or anything. it was a mere suggestion, and if they have some value, we should accept them gracefully, not by throwing examples under the pretenses of “well i think this sucks.” which i don’t by the way.

randy

I guess while were posting stuff… I think this rocks! OK that was a bit uncalled for… Continue on, nothing to see here.

heavy

ok great glory, RDLV, randy, everyone, nice to see we are getting back to getting along. but quickly, i don’t think bharper’s use of the word “failing” was in the exact context you think it is. it is more of a “hey, pro-war even looks anti-war.” is anyone truly pro-war? other than perhaps bush and his cronies? i mean i think something needs to be done, but is war the only answer. sometimes i say yes, sometimes i say no. i won’t say now, and neither does this dsnlg truly say it either, yet. anyway i digress.

i don’t think this particular failure was an actual “you failed glory.” as for the “this sucks.” no i must admit, you did not in fact come out and say it, but a “and this is clever,” that links to one of RDLV’s dsnlgs when one reads between the lines is a blatant “and fuck you too.”

i’ve said my peace, let’s get back to the designorumbles already in progress. oh and uh, happy 420. i’m an idiot.

RevDrLuv

Of course it is OK that you didn’t change the “M” to a “K”. But your image would have had that much more of an edge if you did. You can always count on somebody here to call you out if you missed an opportunity to push your design a little further.

Yeah this topic is heated, but I wasn’t even talking about that. I respect that your opinion is different from mine. Stop, take a breath and think hard before you lash out like that again.

Aarseth

Holy crap! I see what happens when I don’t check this site at work.. A massive surge of emotions, and just as quickly, things are calmed back down. Excellent.

Glory: Not that it seems relevent anymore, but to answer your questions: I GUESS Bush is doing something about the environment; Last year, he backed the US out of the Kyoto Treaty, an international environmental sanctions agreement. As for his hydrogen-car, I don’t remember exactly what was said, but it seemed that nothing substantial was intended to happen until a few years after he had left office. But that’s neither here nor there.

And for the record, I like your #2. I think it carries the sentiment of #1 nicely. The word ‘campaign’ is used both by the military and in advertising. Well done.

heavy

a FEW years after he leaves office? try nothing substantial is even theoretically possible for a solid 15 years from now, probably closer to 20. that was completely thrown in there to blanket the load of crap he was blathering on about.

bharper

wow, glorymachine.. im a bit insulted by your personal attack on my poor gator. i would be the first to admit that that isn’t an amazing image.. just felt like doing a little drawing… sheesh, what a prick you are, eh? anyway, if you guys are interested, my friend from highschool who is in the 101st airborn, who i mentioned earlier in this post, well he was in the NY Times yesterday. I posted a copy of his picture to my site:My boy Matt in the 101 airborn

fashionvictim

Hate to add fuel to the fire, but I have been following these posts rather closely and I can’t find an apology from glorymachine anywhere…

bharper

he kinda tried to apologize. it was close. and while i know name calling is pretty low, so is insulting a man’s art work in response to a political debate. glorymachine, to reiterate, i love your art work, but i was at the time, pretty anti war and just think that people should be more carefull about pointing their guns around. while i certainly appreciate the aesthetics of the images you are creating, the people they support is down right grewsome. i hope you can seperate the two.

RevDrLuv

Main Entry: crit·i·cism Pronunciation: ‘kri-t&-“si-z&m Function: noun Date: 1607 1 a : the act of criticizing usually unfavorably b : a critical observation or remark c : CRITIQUE 2 : the art of evaluating or analyzing works of art or literature 3 : the scientific investigation of literary documents (as the Bible) in regard to such matters as origin, text, composition, or history

I am sorry to pull out the dictionary again but critique and criticism are THE SAME THING. Definition 2 is especially relevant. I did not apologize for critiquing, I apologized for my intentions being misunderstood.

Some people didn’t understand what you were getting at with your last image, and I gave you critique on something you could have done to make it more clear. Does that mean it was the right way, or only way? No, that means it was a observation from an outside party, a review, a CRITIQUE. Are you in the graphic design field? This is an essential part of the process. You must learn to not take criticism personally in order to learn from it.

Showing my work and asking the question “is this clever?” is not a review. Had you given me insight on something I could have done to make the image more successful, then yes. I think you understand the intentions of your statement or, if you can’t admit it, I am sure you can still see what was implied.

I have no argument against your concept being pro-war. I never have once even specifically stated my opinion on the subject. If you want to say kill them all with your work, fine. It could be interesting to see what happens when you expound upon that theme. I was critiquing your work solely on the basis of what you stated the concept to be.

I apologize to everyone for driving this discussion into the ground, but I obviously needed to make myself more clear.

glorymachine

tired of arguing just want to design at this point

bharper

agreed…

RevDrLuv

I am tired of this discussion as well.

If you would just keep yer trap shut Glory, I wouldn’t have to keep proving u wrong! ;D jk

radar

As much as I wanted to keep with the beer, I felt it was time to switch it up.

16 years ago, March 7, 2003
radar

If feeling the progression of the thumbnails, I didnt notice it till I uploaded my image.

2one2

this is beautiful work but is seriously contrasting to the theme.

tacosaurus

It is too bad that glorymachine is too busy defending his country. The Tacosaurus is gonna fuck his lil country up when it comes time for him to post his dsnlg thing-a-ma-bobber.

Despot, Muahhhahahahha. look it up? I defined it for Webster.

koolade

Love it radar. Love the DSNLG. Love war and commercialism. This reminds me Life Magazine during the 40s but with cyncism and facetious supportiveness.

inman

What the fuck is “.” Glorymachine!? That is so chicken shit. And yeah, that’s criticism.

glorymachine

Thanks, I have mental issues. I was tired of all the rehashing of comments even after I apologized and finally accepted other’s point of view. However, even after that, I am still bashed. Nice I must say. I just prefer not to post any other comments on this particular DSLNG because I have found that I do not know exactly where I stand on this whole war thing. So, again I am SORRY to everyone and I am sorry for erasing my comments. I bow to thee oh great minds of DSLNG. I vow not to do so again. I have just had the worst week of my life and not to get too personal, but all the nasty crap in the comments did not make it any better so thanks. I mainly joined this site as a way to get away from all that crap and do what I enjoy most, design. Hope to have my image up by the end of the weekend. I feel that I might do something different now that I have seen and heard some new things about the possible war. Thanks again and please just accept my apology.

I pray for peace in the middle east!

yours truly, “chicken$hit”, aka. “prick”

bharper

hey “prick” that sounded like a genuine post. thanks for the apology. i too joined this site to get away from it all, and instead got insulted for my cheesy gator drawings.. so, im gonna make an effort to not make any more hand made sketches.. and maybe we can all work towards a more positive end.. thanks again for the apology.

as far as image #3 goes. i like the image aestheticly. conceptually, i have some quams about the use of the VW to support america.. the whole german / hitler thing… but thats my only complaint..

inman

Damn Ben, are you a fringe pop sensation or a history teacher? You’re always dropping interesting little observations. I think radar probably was borrowing more from VWs saturation campaign that any previous association with the people’s car.

And I want to apologize for being a dick before glorymachine. I was just disheartened by the retraction of your comments which added so much to this conversation. I like to think that we’re all mature, constantly evolving people who can see past previous comments and accept a person for their current character.

Sorry to hear about the rough week.

RevDrLuv

Except that radar was the person behind this design not glorymachine shaun! :D

inman

Ah, right! Pardon the confusion.

fashionvictim

ahhh clever change there inman. No one will ever know.

RevDrLuv

last comment was from me, not fashionvictim, was accidentally logged in as fashionvictim.

now who’s confused ; D

RevDrLuv

actually that last comment wasn’t me at all, it was fashionvictim logged in as me, clarifying things for me…

inman

Waaah. The Fashionable Reverend Victim of Love Doctor now presiding. Clever? No. That’s why I added the ability to edit posts, to correct spelling and to avoid potentially confusing mistyping.

I always think one paragraph ahead so I was already done with radar and on to my apology to glorymachine.

bharper

where did u get this pic. of bush kissing the sky? he is such a frickin character… someday he will be in motion pictures..

radar

I was leaning more to the fact that VW has a very strong and well known ad campaign, and initially I was looking at Chevy and Ford, but no sizzle there, and seems to come off a little to redneck.

The image I found through a image search on google, and he was actuall hanging out of a car making that face. Reminded me of the Daily Show, where they always freeze the footage when he’s making some ridiculous face.

glorymachine

Sorry for taking too long radar. I have seriously made like four images, but right when I go to upload them, I decide to try a new approach. I guess I am stumped at the moment, but I promise I am working on something. Stay tuned…

glorymachine

Just watched the President on TV as I finished this image.

16 years ago, March 18, 2003
jeromius

man … just read all the back posts - this is one heated DSNLG.

I bet companies would “KILL” for that kind of advertising exposure.

bharper

the odder of terrorism? smells like roses… i see little to no signs of actual terrorism… minus those commited by our own president.. what a fricking moron… oh, and sadam hussein is such a threat… im shaking in my frickin boots.. weinghhh weinn weinn…. what a real joke.. we better turn the terrorist alert up real high… those scattered brand rebels are gonna come and shake us up… get a clue!

bharper

how many gallons of iraq’s oil does it take to screw in a lightbulb.. i mean, a hummer?

more like, dumbed by hummers..

tacosaurus

30 sumpin hours till war. grab yer guns.

Lincoln

where’re the hummers?

glorymachine

In Iraq now.

glorymachine

bombs over baghdad…..

glorymachine

“shock and awe”

tacosaurus

shock and awe? more like destruction and despair. Our president is a hypocrite, to the max.

Aarseth

What will be funny is if we’re over there, remove the Iraqi government, destroy the historical city of Baghdad, kill Saddam Hussein, and find no sign of nuclear weapons. Just picture Dudya and Tony Blair on trial for war crimes…

But now the subject at hand! These images are all very funny, but this conversation doesn’t really seem to be going anywhere. Just different variations on the same theme. I want to see something evolve.

koolade

Hypocrite? War Crimes? Give me a break.

Whether or not Saddam has W.O.M.D. doesn’t matter anymore. Yes I admit, the fact that we are using W.O.M.D. as a guise for taking out Saddam is wrong. But, we are doing the right thing by removing Saddam from power and allowing the people of Iraq the ability to shape their own lives. How much involvement the rest of the world has in that, has yet to be determined. I hope they are given the chance to decide.

To all the people that say Saddam has done nothing to us, I say this. Neither did the Germans in the beginning of WW2, it was the Japanese that attacked us at Pearl Harbor, not the Germans. Sorry John Belushi. Hitlers’s influence was felt in Pearl Harbor as was Saddam’s in 9/11.

But no one argues the fact that taking up arms against the Nazis was wrong. Hitler gave the orders to kill millions of Jews, Saddam gave orders to kill thousands of his own people. Hitler used chemical weapons to kill, Saddam uses chemical weapons to kill. There are a lot of similarities between Hitler and Saddam and at the same time a lot of differences. US Soldiers will day and people will say that Bush killed them, there is a big difference between Saddam/Hitler and Bush. Some may not see it.

War never solved anything. Except ended slavery, nazism and fascism.

Just my opinion. You have yours, I have mine.

Oh yeah, about the design, I agree with Aarseth something is lacking in the progress of this DSNLG. Still love the commercialism, though.

koolade

Sorry,

Paragraph 4, Line 7 - US Soldiers will die, not day

bharper

umm.. about the hitler/saddam comparison:

i agree they are both evil, but if bush was concerned about evil people who kill others…. he would have a much longer list then just saddam.. there are other tyrants in the world.. and i dont see bush chasing them around with a stick..

that stupid texan fucker…

Aarseth

Yea, I agree agree with Ben (except for the Texas thing). If you’re pretending that Bush started this war because he’s a humanitarian, you’re deluding yourself.

But at the same time, I’ve been very nearly convinced lately that this is just war, while at the same time noting that everything Bush says about Saddam can be said about this country.

Then after watching the “shock and awe” segment of our program (right before the halftime show with the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders) I’ve decided that I wouldn’t be happy either way, and I’m just going to make rude comments about both sides. Yay war! Boo war! Back to watching the play-by-play on Fox News. John Madden draws lines all over the screen and explains what’s going on.

koolade

bharper -

I do believe he has a longer list than just Saddam, I think he is just going down the list starting with Usama bin Laden and when that stalled out he needed an easier target and Saddam was next on the list. Saddam is sedentary in his country, he is not going to run, gun and hide like bin Laden.

After 9/11, Bush talked about the Axis of Evil, great name by the way. The list included several countries with terroristic tendencies. I believe he is working his way down the list. He vowed to try and rid the world of terrorists. While Saddam has been quiet for a while, I still believe he falls under the terrorist catagory.

Aarseth - I don’t believe Bush started the war because he is a humanitarian. And your right, I would be deluding myself. But I still believe the war was inevitable, we just got tired of giving Saddam another chance. I do hope that the people of Iraq actually get to choose their leader this time and their government.

Aarseth

kool_ade:

I DO believe W does have a list, and that’s what frightens me.. What happens after we overthrow Iraq? Do we move on to Iran? Then North Korea? Then those troublesome French?

For all the talk by some nowadays comparing Saddam to Hitler, it should be noted that when Hitler started out his campaign, he had convinced his country that Poland posed a threat to their way of life, much the way Bush has convinced us of Iraq.

And for all the talk lately of the French being cowards.. Perhaps they just have a memory of a time when a foreign power invaded their country with plans of “a better world.”

The Nazis had their own word for “Shock and Awe,” by the way.. They spelled it B-L-I-T-Z-K-R-E-I-G.

Is it too late to get in on the pool for the Battle of Baghdad? What’s the spread? Ooh.. that much, huh? Boy, I’ll bet commerical slots are gonna be pretty expensive that day…

radar

BOOM!

16 years ago, March 28, 2003
glorymachine

Just used illustrator on this one…. even made the flags. Just tried to stick with the same colors as the previous image. This brick thing is something that Atlanta did during the Olympics to pay for all the new crap that is worthless now. If you do not believe me, just go to Centennial Park and check out all the bricks. Thought it would be a thing to do in order to “rebuild” Iraq.

16 years ago, March 28, 2003
bharper

yeah, nice thought on the bricks, but NO. this is still sick. our names should be no where near the bricks of iraq.

fine line between rebuilding and destroying…

bharper

why dont you write the name of your children on the tips of the bombs.. so that when they blow up over an iraqy pre school, they will atleast have gotten the pleasure to meat your aquantince…

jeromius

that’s a brilliant idea. what method of payments are accepted?

inman

The heat is on…those were some beauts Aarseth :D These last two images are really punchy, definitely on the satirical side but right on the evangelist’s money.

radar

I feel that I have underpriced my warhead messages, lets make it $50 because those smart bombs are expensive.

Aarseth

I’m definately pleased with the conceptual turn this DSNLG has taken.. But keep it moving!

2one2

buy bricks>> }••{

PlatENumbCracker

I am just Glad that our Presidents Daddy can beat up any country that messes with us!

glorymachine

So, at least the soldiers found billions of stollen money, but where in the howdy doody are the weapons of mass destruction for crying out loud. Hmmmm…… Maybe this DSLNG will take a 180 turn, who knows?